Hebrew Voices #184 – Creation vs. Evolution: Raw and Unedited

Kent is/was a Jew hater. He spoke at a Rood Passover and was the same. A Jew at that event purchased his land for him. Still has not changed

Well you can believe that Adam was not the first man but guess what I believe that he was.

You cannot argue with Ken because science is not accepted. He should spend more time on geology. I am one who believes in the possibility of a real Adam but not as the first human. Please dig more into the origins of Genesis prehistory chapters for your readership.

Hi Nehemia I wanted to say how much I enjoyed the guest speaker discussing evolution/fake science v The scriptures. Unfortunately we can all slip up with silly comments, I have many many times and I hope this doesn’t put you off interviewing a gentile again. In credit to the speaker he retracted his unfortunate comment about gold and continued, perhaps you should have accepted this and not closed down what was a rigorous defence of the Torah. It was a fascinating discussion which had much to merit it. I am a regular financial supporter of you and have a book or two of yours on my shelf. I really appreciate your work

I listened to Dr. Dino’s Hebrew Voices. It is troubling to me that a man of Science and a man of faith makes such an enormous mistake with his logic. He has fantastic logic! But he makes a high-school mistake. His first postulate is not provable nor is it sensible. He also ignores the fact that the sun moon and stars was created on the 4th day and therefore a 24-hour period day could not have existed for this solar system until then.

Even in English the definition of a day in the six day creation scenario is “…there was evening there was morning day…” so and so. This exact definition this is not repeated anywhere else in Scripture. We do see a partial reference to an a measure time using ”
..there was evening… or …there was morning, but never is the Day defined this way ever again. Because this is true and because mankind was not created till the “sixth day” there would not have been a mankind to care one way or the other what kind of day it was. It is the epitome of arrogancy to assume that this different definition of day is a human being looking at Sun Moon and Stars from the surface of the earth DAY. I think you mentioned Gerald Schroeder I read his book and he has a perfectly good explanation for the day idea though he does not explain it enough. There is a governance of progression of any kind of thing in the universe called the natural log. Things that will naturally increase and or decrease follow the rules of the natural log created by The Infinite. So applying that to the Genesis scenario the first day would be enormously longer than the second which was enormously longer than the third and so on as you watch the curve of time occur and the expansion of the universe each epic of expansion could be as much as 4 billion years in the first one and maybe 2.8 billion years in the second and so on as the expansion slows and time velocity increases due to the over all density of gravitational fields. In Biblical terms these were simply G_d’s days. It is not until we see the appearance of man that time speeds up and expansion slows down to the point that we get to the universe we see today. At this point Scripture then focuses on the human beings and the particular liniage that The Infinite chooses. This then is the transition from His time to our time. Seriously Nehemia, if this is confusing, call me. 210-864-5581. My bachelor’s degree is in physics, and your guest ignores some very easily provable physics. Now we can all have different interpretations, but to state that some one is lying is simply just divisive and not useful. Sorry for the length. Keep up the good work!

Hello Nehemia and Shalom!

I want to thank you for another excellent video; and now this one with Kent Hovind. I wish I had seen it when it came out (ten days ago?) but I only found out about in your email from this morning (Sunday, March 31, 2024), and I just finished watching.

Like several other of the commenters, I am a bit troubled that, near the end, Kent casually talks about “Jews and Gold” as well as his response to your earlier question regarding the “Protocols of Zion,” which seem to undercut what may be from a common Christian latent anti-semitism that may not be able to deal with the Jewish State of Israel officially coming back to its native homeland since the UN established it in 1948 (since many consider that they alone are The Israel of God).

At about the 1hr, 13 min (~21 second) point, you ask the question, to the effect, “You wouldn’t say that Jesus rising from the dead is a fairy tale, right?”

His abbreviated answer was something like this, “I don’t think we can prove that scientifically, but … there were people who did see who reported … over 500 witnesses reported that they saw him alive after the crucifixion according to the Bible, all I can go on is I have chosen to believe this book is true … I have chosen to believe Jesus did rise from the dead … he prophesied that it would happen … I know this from four different witnesses: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. They all said that so I think that four witnesses … I think we have enough witnesses and I’ve chosen to believe that …”

I have a chapter in my recent book, “Jesus Cannot Be The Jewish Messiah*,” titled, “What About The Resurrection?” In it I include all four gospel accounts of the resurrection, which, according to many Christian sources, is “The Most Attested Historical Event In All Of Human History!”

The passages I quote are Matthew 28:1-20; Mark 16:1-20; Luke 24:1-53 and John 27:1-31, 28:1-14.

Afterwards, I give three (3) common topics in each gospel narrative:
1) Women go to the sepulchre (tomb) of Jesus
2) Men, angels and/or Jesus appear to the women
3) Jesus appears to the disciples

My summary for point number three, from above, Jesus appears to the disciples:

Matthew: The remaining eleven disciples went to Galilee, into a mountain previously shown them, and Jesus appears to them.
Mark: Jesus first appears to two men, then he appears to the eleven as they eat a meal (in Jerusalem).
Luke: Two men, on the road to Emmaus, walk with Jesus. Afterwards, the two run to Jerusalem where the eleven are gathered. Jesus shows up, and then asks for something to eat. Jesus leads all to Bethany where he ascends to heaven. The disciples return to Jerusalem and worship at the temple.
John: Jesus appears to the disciples in the evening (in Jerusalem). He breathes ‘the Holy Ghost’ upon them. After these things, Jesus showed himself ‘at the sea of Tiberias.’ (the sea of Galilee). Jesus eats there with them thereafter.

Mark, Luke and John talk about having a meal with Jesus in Jerusalem. Matthew and John talk about meeting the disciples in the Galilee. Only Luke’s account mentions Jesus ascending to heaven from Bethany (just outside of Jerusalem) and says nothing about the Galilee. No two accounts completely agree!

In my opinion, for Kent Hovind to be so convincing regarding scientific proofs, even though he quotes from the gospel accounts regarding the resurrection of Jesus, when you actually look at those accounts, just like the evolutionists his belief system is based upon conflicting, incomplete data with no corroborating independent sources outside of the Christian New Testament. His faith could be considered to based upon similar attributions!

I certainly don’t want to negate or diminish his research, but, at the end of the day his own research bias is based upon his own faith, his belief system, just like the evolutionists.

Again, Nehemia, thanks for all of your work, your dedication, your research and your ability to question your guests to bring out good information.

All the best,
Robert Pill

The Biblical solution is found in the Jewish calendar: there are seven weeks of seven. Ken is on about the Sabbath Age – the LORD’S Sabbath being the Millennium – and he is right about Adam and Eve being the first humans in this Age – the end of which Jeremiah saw in Jer 4.

Science knows about the previous extinction/recreation cycles. This is the seventh, and YHVH did not create anything new this Age (giving rest to His angelic helpers).

I welcome any opportunity to elaborate on the Biblical method of prophecy, which is that story is prophecy – or prephecy, in the Genesis case.

Is is Ole Earth, Young Earth, or Gap Creation? All three.

Dr. Dino is not very convincing. He’s confused. To believe in Sola scriptura is noble but God Blessed be His name created science. Also, creationism and science in evolution is not a salvation issue. Only Yeshua HaMashiach died on the cross and rose on the third day. Not evolution or creationism. Bless you all. Thank you.

You mirror my thoughts exactly. They both have good points but I like Hugh Ross’s explanation of creation and his explaining of the different meanings of yom, the Hebrew word for a time period

Love your programs. Really enjoy a lot of what Dr. Dino says too. He is excellent to dispute evolution but I more align with Hugh Ross who is an old earth creationist. The universe and the earth are old but man is relatively young about 6000 years old. Maybe you could interview him. He is an astrophysicist who is very convincing though I disagree with him on the Flood being local. Both Kent Hovind and Hugh Ross make some great points. Check out the debate between Hugh Ross and Kent Hovind.

Thank you Pat! You spoke so eloquently what I have been thinking and trying to say. To Nehemia I ask, “Please bring Dr. Schroeder back” A real scientist, an MIT Physicist, a humble, sincere man who is a believer in Yehovah, the Creator of the universe and a Torah observer. Thank you.

Perhaps Hovind should have said, “I have mentioned Protocols in the past as a problem being embraced by some Christians.” Or, “I considered that information before, but now I renounce and denounce it.” I do hope that the Creation topic will continue on this ‘channel’ in future episodes. Toward that eventuality, here are a few considerations.

**No Jews doing what Kent does**
Dr. Mortimer Adler (December 28, 1902 – June 28, 2001) could be considered as teaching the same caliber of Creationism as a Jew, though unknown to most interested in this topic. Several more Jewish scientists can be found listed at Answers in Genesis: //answersingenesis.org/charles-darwin/darwinism/jewish-scientists-who-oppose-darwinism/

Why Jews see this topic otherwise is impart due to the approach by academics at Jtsa, jtsa.edu › torah › the-myths-of-creation

I mention the Jewish Dr. James Tour, a modern, accomplished real-world scientist who ferociously proclaims a young Creation while being the Professor of Materials Science and Nanoengineering at Rice University in Houston, Texas–known for Molecular electronics, Nanotechnology, Graphene production techniques, Carbon nanotube chemistry, Nanocar, and NanoPutian. This is where cell phones and Torah come together.

The Institute for Creation Research //icr.org/ has a cool planetarium. I appreciate Hovind’s passion but wish that his ‘baggage’ would cease.

As for the vegetarian, pre-Flood era, all I need for confirmation is what Messiah will restore on Earth according to Isaiah : “…the lion shall eat straw like the ox”– [Isaiah 11:1-10].

**Torah written in terms ancient people could understand**
The Torah is not a science text book, but it does ‘speak’ in scientific terms: observable, testable, repeatable. When YeHoVaH told Abraham to look at the stars regarding the descendants he would have, quantifying in exponential, ‘astronomical’ figures was beyond his understanding, but not his comprehension. Stretching the Heaven is poetically physical in its reality.

There’s no way around Moses and 6 days (with YOM, Day 1; YOM, Day 2…). This is where one’s worldview comes into conflict with what they believe to be true verses what they culturally are told is “science”. Ancient people could see that mutations in people, plants, and animals were not beneficial; we understand today that mutations are a loss, or degradation of genetic information: never a gain of beneficial, upward changes. Ancient and Modern are not in conflict; however, chimeric creations are not evolution. They are Frankensteinian inventions using ‘intelligent’ design–not natural, random, biological processes.

I saw this video soon after it was posted but refrained from comment. My late mother told me if I couldn’t say anything nice not to say anything. And my wife repeated that again today.
My mother would have said the guest was an entertaining Flim-Flam Man. Someone who can hip-hop from point to point and keep the audience (customer base) satisfied and willing to buy the product.
His points about evolution of man from an earlier form of life, back to the amoeba is not in question with me. Evolution has not and cannot be proved, although there has been rapid development of types of animals/critters within their basic kind.
But his basic support framework is based on selected scriptures and selected science facts, diverting the conversation away form any reasonable questioning of these. This may satisfy his customer base but did not satisfy me. His use of scripture – from various English translations which may or may not have reflected the Hebrew intent and/or grammar, was incomplete – and limited to what he needed to Flim-Flam and establish pre-eminence. The same was true of the limited physics science he quoted.
He creates a scenario by connecting the dots – that are on different pages, or in different books. Considering he claimed the scripture that he did use unchangeable/undeniabe words of God starting point, and used these as a starting point – one has to wonder how in real life he can then ignore the same and reject the Sabbath in favour of the Lord’s Day.
I and others can debate his scripture interpretations and his science usage, but to what point.

This should be added to the post below. If Faith is defined as wanting to believe yet lacking evidence, then it takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does to believe in the Bible and God. The facts are there. It just takes some digging to find them.

I have a PhD in Neutrino Physics and I have followed Nehemia’s ministry for years. I especially appreciate Nehemia’s research because of his excellent, careful scientific reasoning and documentation. I was surprised when first exposed to Kent Hovind and the concept of a young earth creation years ago. However, I have spent a lot of time digging into the details of the topics he covers as well as have followed many other similar ministries, like Bruce Malone’s Search for the Truth, Mark Armitage’s Dinosaur Soft Tissue Research Institute and Spike Psarris’ Creation Astronomy. As a scientist, I have become more and more convinced and convicted that evolution is not science and is not credible. On the other hand, believing that the earth is about 6000 years old and experienced a catastrophic, world wide flood does fit the actual scientific evidence. It has been a process and taken time, but shifting my world view has brought me far more joy, peace and fulfillment as a scientist AND as a child of God than a vague belief in evolution “just because everyone says so” ever did.

Evolution was never more than a theory
and still is. I thought Dr. Dino’s discussion was quite interesting. Thank you for stepping out of your comfort zone, Nehemia, and having him on your podcast.

Hi Nehemia. You are a modern day hero. You have taught me that it was Jeremiah’s
👉opponents 👈 who said that the scribes lied and made Torah a lie.
You have taught me the most important name in the creation, YHVH.
You have broken the spell of christianity by teaching what a Pharisee actually is, not that a Pharisee is one who keeps the written law.

Kent Hovind is also a modern day champion. He saved me from evolution and without him I would not be here.
He actually believes the Torah, unlike almost all Jews, like those ones you talk about who are rabbis and don’t even believe Moses existed.
He asks the question “Why aren’t more Jews teaching creation”. You tell him that Jews believe in 6k years when they are in synagogue, but the rest of the week they believe in “science”. “The just shall LIVE by his faith”!!! That means all week you believe and practice!
Kent does an incredible job of teaching that “science” is not science. They tell lies! They have agendas! They are immoral! How can they not be liars and immoral when the evolution theory tells them that genesis cannot be believed! Huxley said that they chose evolution because the biblical model interferes with their sexual morés. They are perverts and want to abuse others and perform abominations. That’s your “science” high priests.
When Kent makes Jew insults at you, laugh and make a joke back. Like say “yeah, I would like to make gold. I think George Soros figured out that trick already though. But me, I’m more of a John the Baptist Jew. I’ve even eaten Grasshopper”. Kent would have laughed and loved you for it!
Be like Ben Stein who went to the Arian Nation guys who were printed the “Protocols”. Be like the black guy who went to the kkk and listen respectfully about their grievances towards blacks. Be like the politician who went around and actually listened to all the “little” people. They changed hearts and ended hate.
Your strategy of being offended, is your right, but is not the wise way to act. You are both warriors on the army. Don’t fight each other. You can stand back to back so we can win.

Remember it is the enemies who YHVH confounds and makes their armies start just fighting themselves, and righteous Israel can come upon the battle already over.

Theory of evolution is ridiculous. Just go outside and look at all the amazing life forms. It’s known in law as the “preponderance of the evidence”.

However as far as “Young Earth” I’m more interested in the “Gap Theory”.

Nehemiah, do one on the Gap Theory.

Thanks!

The evolutionary model is, in my opinion, clearly teaching man in the garden, that we are beast creatures and should act accordingly…. If we stay with young earth Biblical model, it’s automatic, man created in Image of Creator, and beast formed as separate species and therefore has different instincts and laws that are written in their dna without free will. Anti god men want man to believe he is beast, and therefore can pursue what is pleasant & desirable. But if a recognizes he is NOT beast, then there he will find accountability for free will & actions, which man wants to reject.

the reason why all could be true is Genesis 1:28. replenish the earth.

Best Interview I’ve seen all year…. Kent Hovind and Hugh Ross BOTH have a piece of the beautiful puzzle. No human and no argument is perfect. No finite brain can contemplate the infinite… but Hovind and Ross can help us see a microscopic piece of His Perfect Architecture of Creation, and see the scientific and physics flaws in the concept of evolution ( a religion that presents itself as a science )

I just wanted to add that non-Jews do not understand that stereotypes about money and gold are connected to some very, very negative history. I got the impression that to him it was just a joke – he’s had other “jokes” that are a bit crass or insensitive. He said he’s open to learning, so maybe Nehemiah, if you are in contact, you can explain why it’s not actually funny. My bet is he doesn’t know much about the history of antisemitism in Christianity.

Hi Taylor,

Another engineer here 🙂

Upon your recommendation I watched a couple long-form programs with Hugh Ross. He slowly, methodically, and confidently indicated:

1. That God was brooding over the waters in Gen 1:2 like an eagle flutters over her young in Deut 32:11, which meant God was creating life during the first day.
2. That he predicted we would see evidence of this life on the moon where there are thousands (maybe he said millions?) of fossils waiting to be discovered from when meteors blasted them from the earth to the moon a long time ago.
3. That Neanderthals and other prehistoric creatures had already lived and died at the time of the garden of Eden, when God created Adam and Eve from the dust
4. That cancer and other diseases and even thorns were present in the original creation just as they are today (after the fall of man)
5. That the sun wasn’t created on day 4, that day 4 is when it became less cloudy so creatures could see it (presumably the pre-human, human-like creatures that He made ages before He made Adam).
6. That the flood killed all people, but not all flesh (and it did not disturb the fossil record). That it was a “world-wide” flood but not a “global” flood (i.e. just man’s world). I’m not sure what he would say about the command to put the animals on the ark. Maybe he’s thinking God summoned the endangered animals nearby to Noah to board the ark.

There was more puzzling stuff but this is getting long. My take away was introducing billions of years necessarily leads to some odd places. Maybe it creates more problems than it solves?

Kindly,

Jason

I find it interesting that people would be so astounded at the idea of today’s carnivores at one time being vegetarian…I frequently see my dog eating grass. And, doesn’t the prophet say it will be that way again?…the lion will lay down with the lamb? No creature will feel threatened by any other – a child will be able to play with a viper in the world to come. I don’t think that’s intended to be allegorical. In the world to come, the trees will give fruit almost continuously. Is this allegorical or literal? I tend to think it’s literal. In the world to come, the light of the sun will be much greater than it is now (if we believe the prophets) and plants will apparently thrive in the environment Yehovah recreates of the immediate heavens and the earth. Also, vegetation needs sunlight to grow. So, how in the beginning did vegetation manage to survive while it was waiting for the sun to be created over a “period of time” versus a literal next day? A literal six days is rational vs a day = “an extended period of many years.” And if days were merely some unspecified time period, there’s no way at all to know when the Sabbath falls or even how long it’s supposed to last. Exactly when was the count supposed to start if not as stated in the creation account? There’s been a tendency to pick and choose from the Torah so as to try to fit to “science,” but true science is never “fixed,” but fluid, and man will find out eventually what he doesn’t know. If we disregard, manipulate or throw out one of the Eternal One’s statements, then we might as well throw out the entirety. Great guest! Thought provoking!

I was a staunch Evolutionist for the first 48 years of my life :S When I became a believer in Yeshua, I found that I was now a firm believer in Creationism. (I also firmly believe that C’tianity is not a “new” religion but the continuing revelation of Yehovah, and that C’tians have been grafted into the cultivated olive tree of Judaism. Since C’tian churches teach so little about that, I love to get information from your site.) So, I was very interested in the above interview. I think you both acquitted yourselves pretty well, and a lot of information was shared.

I have to take on The Protocols, though. I believe they are a calumny against the Jews and possibly were written by anti-Semites to keep Jews and C’tians apart from each other. Mr. Hovind was not incorrect that there are “lots of peoples that have wanted to take over the world”. I think of Ghengis Khan, Napoleon, Hitler, etc., all of whom were gentiles and who should have been mentioned. I feel he sort of ducked the topic.

The other one was about gold and Jews. What can one say? It is hard on one to get caught publicly indulging in a stereo type. However, he ducked his responsibility again. I will lean on the Bible for this one …. in the Garden, all human beings became sinners. Yehovah was/is willing to forgive our sins in order to have a people for Himself. A really powerful example of forgiveness is when Joseph forgave his brothers for all they had done to him.

Nehemia, keep on going where “no man has gone before.”

I used to watch Kent Hovind years ago when our children were small. I thought he was great. Haven’t seen him in many years. Not sure how I feel after this performance. I loved that you mentioned Dr. Gerald Schroeder. His explanation of the age of the universe makes perfect sense, however Mr. Hovind kind of blew it off, I guess because it doesn’t fit with his teaching. All that aside, I was caught off guard at several of his seemingly anti-semetic comments, how the Jews missed Jesus, and the gold comment at the end. Oy vey! Sorry Mr. Hovind, I’m out!

Very interesting guest. I was not aware that light had been speeded up, but my weekly Torah teacher is the brother of the man who first slowed light to 1 mph. He says that since then, light has slowed to zero, which makes no sense ibn my mind. But i can give you his contact if you’re interested.

As I was listening about why Jewish scholors don’t defend creationism one way or the other, it struck me that as “light and teachers” of the Torah, they miss the opportunity to be the light and teachers of Yehovah’s Word to the rest of the world. Isn’t that why Father gave them the right rulings, and laws. Debarim 4:6
I appreciate Kent’s boldness in defense of the Torah, the very foundations that are being eroded by false science and silent Torah teachers who are called to be light to this dark, and getting darker world.Like Ester 4:14. Time for my older brothers to contend for the faith of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Ps 27.
Whose approval should we be seeking? Elohim’s or man’s?
Thank you for stepping out of your comfort zone and bringing Kent on your show.

I come from a very simplistic point of view. The Bible is not a science book. Rather it’s a relational book- a book written by our Creator in other to have a relationship with humanity. Written to ancient near east people who wouldn’t have a clue about what your guest is talking about. Therefore we need to delve more into ANE perspective and refrain from our 21st century knowledge with application to our understanding. Who can fully know the Mind of Yehovah? I know HE loves us and wants a relationship with us.

What is interesting in this whole discussion is that all we have are man’s assumptions. I’m not saying that’s bad or wrong but it might explain why we don’t agree.
The Bible is the Word of God and many of us trust it completely. Then there are different interpretations of what is stated. Some textual variations can skew the understanding a little; but we still trust it as being 100% from Yehovah.

Science is man’s way of trying to explain the world around him. He uses all sorts of computations and theories to make his observations fit into the model he likes. People go to great lengths to explain things they really can’t prove at all. It’s almost childish really because we will say we’ve proven something but there is no way to show it to others. We aren’t millions of miles above the earth to describe what is going on in space. We use artist’s renditions to show how things are in deep dark space. Man hasn’t been there to verify or confirm these things. But they can claim to see them from powerful telescopes.

The same is true of so many things. Today people can’t agree on what man should be eating for health. Some say we should eat plants and there is much evidence for the health benefits. Some insist we should eat only meat as if we are carnivores like a lion! Hmmm. Then Dr. Hovind comes along with a story of a lion which survived eating only plants.
My point is we all have our opinions but none of us KNOWS for sure about anything. I’m mainly talking about the age of the earth or why God described creation the way He did.

Either way, Dr. Dino is interesting, intelligent and very entertaining! Thanks for having him on.

“Young earth creationism” is a Baptist doctrine that the guest is defending with pseudo-science. Dr. Hugh Ross, a Christian plus accomplished astronomer and astrophysicist with Reasons To Believe, argues that the creation days are actually long periods of time consistent with the biblical account and the universe is as old as science says it is. They make much better arguments for the scientific validity of the Bible, in my opinion as a science-trained engineer. There are too many questionable statements by Kent Hovind to go into here. I have met truth-loving atheists who turned away from a belief in the God of the Bible by the “young earth creationism” doctrine, which is a very sad thing. I’m pretty certain that Dr. Ross, or someone from his group, would love to appear on your podcast to present their views. There are also innumerable books and videos available from them. Thanks for your podcasts, Nehemia.

Science, per Karl Popper, is not fixed. Building on a swamp is his analogy.
Science (my degrees are in Physics) does not answer everything. For instance, which came first, the information in a cell (DNA/RNA) or the implementation of the cell and how did one come from the other?