Hebrew Voices #2 – The Origin of Sin
In this episode of Hebrew Voices, The Origin of Sin, Nehemia Gordon discusses with Dr. Miryam Brand the origin of sin and her book, Evil Within and Without: The Source of Sin and Its Nature as Portrayed in Second Temple Literature. Gordon keeps … Continue reading →
In this episode of Hebrew Voices, The Origin of Sin, Nehemia Gordon discusses with Dr. Miryam Brand the origin of sin and her book, Evil Within and Without: The Source of Sin and Its Nature as Portrayed in Second Temple Literature. Gordon keeps the gems accessible to non-scholars as they track revelations about the origin of sin through the centuries.
Gordon and Brand focus on pertinent passages in the Tanakh, the book of Romans, the Damascus Document, and other historical literature. We learn how a face-value acceptance of our bad selves evolved into two issues to grapple with—outside demonic influences versus a personal evil inclination. The scholars also explore theodicy, the deterministic prayers of the second Temple period, the “sins of the father,” the three traps of Belial, a “nefesh”(soul) that can’t be completely separated from the body, and demonic possession. Lastly, but certainly not least, with a promise of more discussions to follow, the erudite comrades bottom-line at the divinely-gifted free will to choose.
Dr. Miryam Brand holds a Ph.D. in Bible and Second Temple Literature from New York University and an M.A. in Bible and Biblical Interpretation from Matan and Haifa University. Her book on the portrayal of sin in the Second Temple period (Evil Within and Without: The Source of Sin and Its Nature as Portrayed in Second Temple Literature) was published in 2013 and her commentary on the Book of Enoch was published as part of Outside the Bible in 2013. She has taught at Brown University, New York University, and Stern College and has spoken at Hebrew University, Cambridge University, and the University of Kiel. She is currently an Associate Fellow at the Albright Institute of Archaeological Research.
"Sin crouches at the door... yet you can be its master." Genesis 4:7
I look forward to reading your comments!
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Transcript
Nehemia: Shalom this is Nehemia Gordon with Hebrew Voices. I am here in Southern Jerusalem with Dr. Miryam Brand, the author of a book which talks about the source of sin. Actually the title is “Evil Within and Without: The Source of Sin and Its Nature as Portrayed in Second Temple Literature”. This is going to be exciting. Shalom, Dr. Brand.
Miryam: Shalom. I’m happy to be here. It’s nice to hear such an excited introduction.
Nehemia: I am excited, but I want to read your little bio. I called it a little bio, but it’s very impressive. Miryam Brand holds a PhD in Bible and Second Temple literature from New York University and a MA in Bible from Haifa University. She has written a book on the portrayal of sin the Second Temple period, that’s the book I’m holing in my hand, a beautiful book that you can get on Amazon.com and other places, Evil Within and Without. As well as a commentary on the book of Encoch, we are going to have to have you back at some point to talk about the book of Enoch, maybe even the Enoch calendar, that’s a separate topic. She has taught at New York University, Stern College, Brown University, and has spoken at Hebrew University, Matan, Bar Ilan Cambridge University and the University of Kiel in Germany. She is currently an Associate Fellow at the Albright Institute of Archeological Research. All I can say is wow. Let’s dive into it. Let’s talk about sin. What is the source of sin?
Miryam: Really what I worked on was how people were explaining the source of sin in Second Temple literature. This is after the Hebrew Bible, from the traditional point of view was closed. Even though, how closed it is for people living during the Second Temple period is of course a question.
Nehemia: Let me just point out that you’re an Orthodox Jew, but today you are speaking as a scholar.
Miryam: Right.
Nehemia: Meaning whatever your personal beliefs are, today you‘re speaking as an academic. Is that right?
Miryam: Yes, actually, it’s pretty easy, I think, for an Orthodox Jew to be a scholar without a bias in Second Temple literature, because it’s after the closing of the Hebrew Bible.
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Comments
What is the purpose of a Messiah ?
Hmm, as we all die and death is the wages of sin, no-one can free themselves from it! And is the tree of life not the goal we human’s aim at ?
Who wants to die?
Thanks be to Yeshua, who made and accomplished a way of escape, by being tempted by the devil, and overcoming/rejecting him three times in the ‘Temptation in the Wilderness!’
Glory to Yehovah, who has send his Son for just this purpose!
Yes, there is a way of escape, but unless the wages of sin, speak death, has been done away with, we all, speak humanity, die and will die in our sins!
And as we know, everything physical dies, so has Abraham and all the people mentioned in the Tanakh !
Conclusion: We all are the prisoners of sin, for we all die! But, as mentioned, there’s a way of escape …. just as much as there is a “High Priest,” and (as an example/ foreshadow) there’s been one n the Temple in the history of Israel!
Shalom and wishing you a serene Atonement! …
The reason we don’t see Adam ‘dying on the day he ate of the fruit’, is because Jehovah stated in the day….his days are 1000 years according to psalms 90:4. And again at 2 Peter 3:8 it is reconfirmed that a days with Jehovah is as a thousand years and a thousand yeard as one day….so Adam began dying and did not complete a day….only 930 earth years.
Miryam mentioned when she teaches about angels and demons their purpose etc. does she have any books or articles on that? I would be interested in that teaching.
Yes. I also am listening again, and again – and it’s 4 years later! Still waiting for part 2.
Welcome, Doreen! I get a lot of great things from Nehemia, and believe we are living a prophecy from Zechariah – to paraphrase chapter 8; ‘ … in those days ten gentiles will grab the hem of one Jew and say, ‘we have inherited lies from our forefathers. Teach us for we have heard that YHVH is with you.’.” Baruch YeHoVaH!
ditto, Betty! I was thinking the same thing. Also, the difference between oral and written Torah – and whether Paul is endorsing Torah or nailing it to the cross (which law was he opposing?).
$102 for the book?!?!?!?
AMEIN!!!
This was captivating for me. Thank You both for this glimpse of Hebrew vs. Christian views on the same subject. I was brought up with this teaching.. to resist the devil and he will flee from you. Some who know better still eat pork saying that it was shown in a dream that these unclean creatures were presented to be eaten. If they read on, it says .. now I understand.. do not call any man common or unclean as this was the view of the gentiles. Still people will find a way to make it say what they want it to say. Same with Christmas, Eastor, Sunday worship, etc. Here is what I think applies here.. “None are so blind as they who will not see.”
Shalom, Nehemia. Regarding demonic spirits taking hold of people in Scripture, don’t forget about King Saul. Scripture seems to be saying that a spirit got ahold of him, and only young David’s music would calm Saul down.
Hi my name is Doreen and I live in the western cape, South Africa. I was busy doing reasurch on God’s name Yehovah when I came across a vidio of yours about three days ago.
Eversince then I’ve been hooked to your and Keith’s work, which IA mind blowingly amazing.
I myself also have quite a life story on my search for the truth… The whole truth
It’s hard but again, amazing how our Father has protected, led and guided me.
As I’ve mentioned I’ve been searching from a very young age, and I’ve been protected from most lies the devil spreads but in the recent months I’ve been searching to find millions that only give you part of the truth and I’ve been loosing hope till I came across your vidios.
I believe I’ve been led to you and Keith, and I can imagine you guys must be very busy but I so desperately want the truth, not only for me but my children and anyone who truely is seeking the truth about our creator.
I myself still have so many unanswered questions and my biggest desire is to truthfully serve Yehovah with all I am.
If there is any way you can help me grow in my knowledge of the whole truth….
Please and thank you
And may Yehovah bless you and Keith in the awesome work you doing to give people the truth
Doreen
As a former Christian under churches of god seventh day , under the Armstrong’s I was made to feel a sinner. However YHWH showed me by a book by William Sargent that this was akin to brainwashing. In reality it was not compatible with Torah or loving oneself. . It was an attempt to break the human spirit. By the time of the death of Herbert Armstrong it had been shown that the nephesh had a spirit enmeshed within it, not a soul or a duality but the nephesh is an animate entity animated by a complex spirit interaction with mater forming as a product biological materiality. . The successful operation of this complex required YHWH and his Dabar or word. Thus without YHWH, his Torah we would fall short , miss the mark, not fulfill our purpose , bring a curse rather than a blessing. .
Rejecting YHWH left a position open to other entities , but did not remove our free will, or choice. However once one decides to give up then one is powerless.
The notion of demonic possession is a foreign one that was common among those rejecting YHWH and brought in by the early church fathers misinterpreting Tanakh and Yeshua by Talmudic takenoth.
Saul quotes Torah in his parallels with the ruach and the besar.
Tsuvah Torah!❤️
Excellent discussion!
Hi Kyla,
Below the Yellow Donate button it has the word “Transcript” in blue. If you click that, it opens up the transcript.
Shalom, what I understand is that we were created in the likeness of Yehovah ,meaning we have freedom to choose rather than just follow instinct. When Yehovah told us not to consider anything good or bad, but trust Him and His Word because He had already chosen between good and bad, we began to do the opposite. We began to question and doubt Yehovah’s goodness. Then we tempted others, looked for someone to blame, going from one wrong to another and encouraging worse decisions.looking for more and more things to blame and creating victims and falsehoods. The only way back ? Is to listen to Yehovah’s Word who is truth and live in His Ruach Hakodesh
There is no “Transcript download” button beneath the short typed intro on this but only “Download the Origin of Sin” which is the MP3 format download.
Hello Nehemia, I really enjoy listening to these enlightening discussions. I would like to offer some insight on one of the points in this discussion with Dr. Miryam Brand that was touched on; specifically the idea of the soul and the flesh. While it is true that, in the NT the idea of some humans becoming spirit beings after their death in the flesh, this must be understood in the greater context of the NT. There are Scriptures which indicate that this transformation is limited to the ones referred to as the chosen, or elect. The idea that all good people die and go to Heaven does not officially come into Christianity until the time in the 4th century when Roman empire takes control of church operations. To be sure, the concept of the soul leaving the body is a Pagan idea which slowly crept into the congregations in the period prophesied by the apostles in the NT at 2 Thessalonians 2:3; 2 Timothy 2:18 and 1 John 2:18. The resurrection of the dead is a future event that still has yet to occur but Roman doctrine teaches otherwise. The ver small number of chosen ones who will be resurrected as angelic spirit beings are clearly defined at Matthew 19:28; Revelation 1:6; Revelation 20:4; Revelation 14:3; Revelation 5:9, 10 and Revelation 3:12. It is very important to delineate between the Roman empire’s hybrid, Christo-Pagan doctrines and the actual Scriptures recorded by the apostles. The actual truth is in the Scriptures even though the traditions of the Roman apostasy have influenced thousands of spinoff sects of Protestantism. YeHo-shua said “seek and you will find”. Sadly, the vast majority prefer the broad and spacious road of following tradition over the cramped and narrow road of seeking the truth.
Question. In the book of 1 Samuel 18:10 we read in the Hebrew, ויהי ממחרת ותצלח רוח אלהים רעה אל־שׁאול ויתנבא בתוך־הבית ודוד מנגן בידו כיום ביום והחנית ביד־שׁאול
“The next day, an evil spirit from God took control of Saul and he went wild in his house. David played the harp to calm him as he usually did,…” (ERV)
The Hebrew seems to agree with the above English translation looking at the Hebrew word נָבָא. Could this be a form of possession?
Shalom,
VM
Could have listened for hours. Very interesting. But let me say this – surrender to the will of Yehovah He is righteous.
For those of you who found it going too fast, just click on the transcript button under the recording and you will be able to read it all.
I can see your point to a degree, and believe that God’s word is the ultimate source of truth. However I find it extremely informative to listen to people who know about the historical, linguistic and cultural surroundings in which the Bible took shape as it gives me greater insight into scripture and helps me grow in my walk with God. In this day and age I find there is far too much “dumbing down” of everything to the lowest common denominator with very little to engage the mind. I’m personally sick and tired of bubblegum religion and bumper sticker theology.
Nehemia: My take on this is: I’m not an academic. I have been reading/studying daily the Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation for 6
years. I asked the Almighty for that desire. And I got it! I have read commentaries and other explanatory documents that have been
helpful. I’ve listened to many, worldly “teachers/preachers” who have copious religious theories and there aren’t two persons that
have the same understanding of Scripture. I’ve even gotten into studying the corrupt and numerous translation issues of the Scriptures. I have gained tremendous insight as a result. But I have learned to know when to stop the research. I’m not complete but expect to be a continual work in progress. I’m a different person from what I was b4 those 6 years of study. That is something I cannot explain but it is real. The Scripture is so rich in depth that I have learned to take a bite at a time. Not swallow the whole loaf at once. Not going to the buffet table and take more than my body can withstand. It seems to me that these academics want an explanation for every thought of the heart and mind and if they don’t get a “satisfactory” explanation then they look to still more documents to find still more ideas. And it becomes circular reasoning leading to just that circular logic. To me, this jumble leads to distraction ending with no understanding of purpose at all but only more fanciful vexation. I don’t wonder that their students are atheists or agnostics. I know these academics have to justify their position by getting caught up in their own “well-researched”
theories. But Almighty God, whom I really believe in, becomes lost in all the bewilderment when they try to zero in and figure out these myopic points. If mortal man must know everything, what is the point of faith then? If this woman has not had an experience with the Almighty, I can see why she wants to constantly defend and justify her academic points. Knowing the Almighty is something that no academic or teacher or priesthood can explain. I used to listen to these “brilliant people” and take them seriously and try to understand them. But when it became overwhelming, it tells me I don’t need to know that much as it only leads to a heap pile more of
a whirl. Nehemia, as your ole Uncle Solomon, the wisest man of all time and who should know has said, The conclusion of the matter is to love God and keep his commandments. Enough said. Hope this explains my position.
Very good to listen to a discussion on this topic. My son and I had this conversation of why is there no mention in the Torah on demon possession, but in the gospel’s it’s mentioned many times. I have wondered if there was something about the translation or did something happen in that time that we are unaware of. I don’t know. But I have been exposed to many teaching in Churches that are so horrendous on this very topic. Thank you for sharing your discussion and your passion for learning. It’s so good to hear. And love for our Father! Shalom Shalom!
Yes! I do agree with a previous post that “it ended before it began”! I think to say, this conversation put the cart before the horse though interesting still. The “origin” must be examined in order to put the horse up front or in other words, we must build the foundations BEFORE the building proper. Also, I think you’ll agree that not much specifically is said outright concerning the origins of demons yet much can be known specifically because of the saying, “the hidden things of God are clearly seen by the things that are made”. Having said that, comprehending those things which we can see evidently by the things that are made, are and will be where wisdom resides. The things I say may sound like riddles but discovering a few basic foundational items will cause comprehension of these matters to leap forward. To sum up; this is a foundational topic and as such, cannot be comprehended without the foundation pieces, PERIOD! Thank you for the effort and I’ll be waiting with bated breath for the “1st interview” now that we have heard the 2nd. Blessings to all!
Wow! Such an amazing session. Thank you both for sharing.
Ok, you did a teaser with her, my appetite is whetted. Please have heras a guest again soon!! The topics you promised us are too juicy to be put off any more, Nehemia!
The Library called. They got a copy of “Evil Within and Without: The Source of Sin and Its Nature As Portrayed in Second Temple Literature” by Miryam T. Brand. I checked it out. If buying this book is not an option you can ask your public library to get one for you. The worse they can do is say no.
Thank you both; this was good indeed. However, in all due respect, it would help to slow down for us “elderly” and/or younger than elderly folks who have short term memory issues. When one talks over the other it is difficult to process. Needless-to-say, could you maybe increase the time frame and slow it down a bit, pretty please!
Some translations end Genesis 4:7 with “can be its master”
The english translation of the JPS uses “may rule over it”.
When free will is the underlining issue the word “may”
makes sense because it gives us freedom of choice.
That was awesome! I could listen to you two for hours!
I would love it if Dr Miryam Brand would convert her book to Kindle. How about? Amazon.com is sold out of the text book.
This spoke to so many aspects of what we were taught as Christians. As an ex-Christian it makes so much sense. “The devil made me do it.” Taking no responsibility for our actions. Thank you for slowing Dr. Brand down so that we could fully (or not so fully, LOL) gain more understanding of the topic. There are at least 10 more audios needed to explore this topic in more detail. Thanks Nehemia and Dr. Brand. Very engaging conversation.
This program was not long enough! 😉 I cannot wait until you two get together again. Thank you so much.
It ended before it began. This was so nice, having an mind as big Nehemia’s to talk to brings such a crazy awesome element to the conversation, please make a part two happen, please make a 1+ hour show. I know having a guest like this on the show must be difficult with scheduling, but it was so good. I am listening to it a second time as the two of you were talking so fast trying to pack in the Information in such a small time period. Just Great!
Shalom and thanks for your programs!
I am a little concerned that concerning the very beginning of the recording about the so called controversial doctrine of sin falling upon the third and fourth generation.. it says in both Exodus 22:5 and Deuteronomy 5:9 that; God speaking “to those that hate me”. To me it is obvious the curse of generational sin stops when a person loves God. read closely below:
1) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
2) Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
I am concerned that people and scholars struggle with this idea of transference of sin and forgiveness thereof. Sin does many times picked up by the children! The simple solution is to break the curse and love God… is it not?
Thanks for the idea of the demon that Jews considered by title as meaning “worthless” Reminds me of Yshua’s words not to refer to people with this demonic name of “Belial/Worthless”
Mat 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool (Belial), shall be in danger of hell fire.
Demon activity in Tanakh:2Ch 18:21
And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.
Tools specific to 2Ch 18:22
2Ch 18:22
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.
Theodicy? Why bad things happen to good people? That is an arrogant statement and also question especially since we as people can not determine ultimately what is good or evil.
Very interesting, thank you! Just request Nehemiah that you pick a different “go to” name besides “Bill” – my husbands name!?
Yes, but why don’t you have it in you? that is the question! ?
Vicki is spot on! How about 2 or maybe 3 hours next time? I’m looking forward to more from Nehemia and Miryam. Thank you both for an exciting and informative program. Shalom
Loved this one-but I agree with some others-we need-want more.
Thank you
Would love it Nehemia if you could comment on the Book of Jasher. This Hebrew voice has so much insight into questions raised throughout Torah Pearls, that were left unanswered. It is referred to in the Tanak – so why not once throughtout Torah and Prophet pearls. Eg The Torah says a donkey and the serpent spoke, but Jasher says that all the tongued animals were created with speech.
Glad to be of service 😀
I really laughed out loud when I read you post Pogo! lol
Well I am going to listen to this for the 5th time…Very interesting indeed!
Excellent…. Really enjoyed this…
Thank you for this teaching! No more victim mentality can remain when we know we all have a choice, James 1:13,14 confirms it.
Thank you again Nehemia for posting this, and thank you Miryam for taking the time to share with us. I sure do hope we will hear more from you two:) great stuff:)
Shalom
Lovely! As an academic studying exegesis and has a big interest in the Second Temple Period, I am completely sold when you have scholars on. My favourite Nehemiah-moments are when Nehemia the Scholar shines through. 🙂 Oh if only you were a woman, then I would marry you straight away (no pun intended).
Once again I learned something new! Thank you Dr. Brand.
Nehemiah.
Just on the part where it is stated that there are no references to ‘demons’ entering people. …
I m wondering if you have ever covered the scripture where an evil spirit from YHVH troubles…or is upon King Saul? 1 Sam 18:10 in particular….if he is prophecying…..
Also 1 Kings 22:23. etc.
Familiar spirits is another one where generational spirits hand down causing actions??
Judge 9 speaks specifically about one being between them causing treachery.
Why word it thus instead of speaking about evil men?
I’m interested in finding out about this idea from Tanakh.
I’ve done plenty of research, but my Hebrew is still poor to say the least.
“Original Sin”! I don’t think I have it in me to wait long for that one.
I am glad to learn from all the history and cultural facts, we have no history taught here.
I personally believe research reveals a lot of things and Scripture is alive today as was and will be by YHWH power.
Thanks and keep it up!
WOW! Please, sir, I want some more.
Are you kidding? The entire program was a “teaser.” Nehemia, this is what you do best showing us the history, culture and language of the scripture. I call it “peeling back the onion” . Thank you.
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