Hebrew Voices #66 – The Historical Pronunciation of Vav

Shibboleth vs sibboleth and the Ephraimites. Judg. 11. 6

The ‘vav’ in Torah is pronounced as ‘o’ because of the nikkud
The ‘vav’ is not in that word to make a ‘v’ sound, the, and neither is the ‘waw’ there to make a ‘w’ sound.
Torah is pronounced ‘Toe-rah’, not Tw-rah’ or Tv-rah’.

Wow, I am so happy the right pronunciation is vav. I was told by Hebrew professors, the classic Biblical Hebrew was waw, and I did not like it, I don’t know why! Maybe I am bias, but knowing now the waw came from Arab origin makes it foreign and therefore more undesirable.

Eleazar Ben Kalir, that Nehemia sites did not live in the middle ages. He lived in Kiriat-Sepher in the land of israel from the late 500s to early 600s. His pronunciation of vav is vee. So what you say is just not true.

hello, i was wondering what your thoughts on the lead tablet they found on joshua’s alter on mt. ebal? and the YHW they found on it?
thank you

Brian – first in reference to teh Name the cholem is abive the Hey- making the sound ‘HO’ Y’HO’VAH. Three nikudot three syllables. When the cholem is above a Vav (not the case in the NAME) the Vav drops its ‘V’ sound and becomes just ‘OH’ However if it were above and slightly to the left of the Vav it would be pronounced ‘VO’ This is not the case here as the Vav has the Kametz below it it is ‘VA’

I am trying to get clarification on the actual location of the cholam, many manuscripts show the chlam above the left corner of the hei, and others seem to show it above the vav, and still others show it in-between. I tried sending an email, but was stopped by someone that just said “goto the webpage about the Name, there is a lot of good info there”. I have looked, read, listened and watched everything on that page, and this has either not been addressed or I actually missed it in all the years I have been on this site. The challenge presented to me is that the vav has to either a vowel carrier for the cholam, to get the “O”, or it can make the “V’, but that it can’t do both in the same word or name. Please provide insight on this matter. Thank you and Shalom!

What tribe in Israel have a pronounciation problem that was used against them in the battle and where is it found in the bible

Yah is a poetic reference in Psalms 68:4. The vowels for YHVH/YHWH are the vowels of Le’Olam. This is no secret. The Talmud says the pronunciation is handed down every 7 years.

A yod at the beginning of a word is always pronounced as a “y”

The Shomronim may claim that their pronunciation hasn’t changed or been influenced by other cultures, but they descend from the Ten Tribes of Israel who were exiled by the Assyrians and those who weren’t exiled mixed with the imported peoples whom the Assyrians sent to break the connection of the Tribes with the land of Yisraël.
Though I accept them as bnéi Yisraël (but not bnéi Yehouda), they were just as influenced by other cultures and the tribes of Yehouda, Sim°on and Benyamin who were exiled by Bavel and Rome. It is one tradition of speaking amongst several.

Talk with a native-speaker of Israeli hebrew, or start going to synagogue and learn your hebrew there… you will learn how to pronounce hebrew, but the Shem HaMeforash you will always hear replaced with A-do-naï. Don’t go running to anyone who cannot speak hebrew just like you should not go up to someone who doesn’t speak Russian, Greek or French how to pronounce any word which is written in their languages.

Vav has always been a part of the hebrew Alef-bet. The pronunciation changed to « w » because the Témanim lived amongst the Arabic-speaking nomads of Yemen. In the Tiberian pronunciation, which is the root of both the Ashkénaze and Séfarade pronunciations, the labiodental Vav had the sound « v », which the séfardim could easily confuse with the bilabiale sound « ß », which is why in modern Spanish « B » is called « be-grande » or « be » and « V » is called « be-chico » or « uve » and they can interchange by illiterate or undereducated native speakers of Spanish. (For example, it is officially spelled « cebiche » but everyone writes it « ceviche » and the two spellings are pronounced the same.

No, ancient hebrew had yud-hé-vav-hé (י-ה-ו-ה), four consonants. You had to be able to speak the language to know what vowel sounds when where. When transcribing the hebrew to any other alphabet, you are left with constraints on how to pronounce a word based on the phonemes and morphemes of the transliterated alphabet. The IPA is the only one which covers the sounds which every human language can create from the bottom of the glottis to the puff of the lips and everything in between. The loss of using the IPA is that you can’t see the roots of the words.
In the Middle Ages, it would have been written in latin iehouah, in which « i » represents a vowel « i » (European), a semi-vowel and a glide « j » (or « y » in modern english). « U » also represents a vowel « u » (German/Spanish) and a semivowel « w » (english) and a labiodental consonant « v » (or « w » in German).
What was often seen as a « y » in Medieval English was actually the letter « thorn » which had the sound of « theta » in Greek, not the « edh » which sounded like « th » in « this ». Thus, the words « ye olde… » actually were pronounced « the old » or it could have been « wynn » which had the « u » sound of the welsh « w » and in cwm.

You have to réalise that each of the 22 letters of the Alef-bet are CONSONANTS, a few of which can be used to mark a vowel use when using « full/malé » spelling without the vowel marks. See my answer to Norman.

Yud can be « j » (or english « y ») or it can be used to represent the European sound « i ».

Vav is a consonant with the bilabiale or labio-dental sound « v » but when spelling without the vowel marks, it can stand in for « o » or « u » (a rounded vowel sound that changes depending on the placement of the tongue).

Alpha and upsilon together have the sound « av » not « aou » or « aü ».

I am in search of the truth of the Most High real name

Yes, we do…Jo

In the ancient Paleo Hebrew, which the Samaritans still hold to today, they pronounce Vav as Waw, and they claim that their traditions have not changed since receiving the Torah and they weren’t sent into exile or influenced by other cultures. This is why I still believe that the Vav sound is a Waw, but I would love to hear something that goes against this belief. They also pronounce ’ק’ as Q and ’ת’ and “Th”. Paleo Hebrew has no repeating sounds in its alphabet which is another interesting point, and these sounds don’t exist in todays Hebrew which means it could’ve gotten lost somehow.

The letter “yod” is always pronounced as a “y” at the beginning of a word. And Yeh at the beginning of words, where Yah can be at the end of words.

The Yemenites have the most accurate tradition and they say the “vav” is pronounced as a “W”.

There is never a name in the Bible where the beginning of the name is Yahu. We find Yahu at the end of words, but never at the beginning. At the beginning of words it is always Yeho.

The vav is a later medieval addition to Hebrew. The ancient original waw was used, the best example is the Jewish Yemen community that uses waw.

Thank you Nehemia, I appreciate your effort in the research of His Name, and your touchable love for יהוה. It is a wonderful discovery to see these vowals according to Rabbinic literature, and how you boldly use the Name, Yehovah.
In the name Yahudah, according to Messianic believe, we have the dalet, which is the Messiah, and we know the Sons Name is in the Fathers Name, and He is the door to the Father, so take the dalet out, and you are left with Yahuah, the Name of the Father. He also said He is the Lion of Yahudah, and the Messiah was born out of the tribe of Yahudah, King David as you know.

What is proto-Hebrew? Does it not have the original name for Adonay as YAHAWAH?

Ancient Hebrew had YHWH, which changed in the Middle Ages to YHVH, and IHVH to JHVH. Nehemia Gordan focuses on the changes of the Middle Ages YHVH, however, it was originally YHWH with a waw sound.

For example, Ezek 23:35 spells the word “back” גו with a vav but Ezek 10:12 spells “back” גב with a bet.

Can we get a citation for the source from Ezekiel time Tanakh that interchangeably uses Bet (V) and Vav(V) for the word “back.” That was your best point, but no clear sourcing yet.

Was wondering because I noticed you didn’t mention the Proto Canaanite language influence on Hebrew along with the Phoenician alphabet and the fact that Hebrew vowel system was only created around the 7th century by the Masoretes. Also you didn’t mention the pronouncation differences between Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews.

My question is similar to Norman Mc Dermid (in this thread). I just watched a video by Jim Staley who claims the name is Yahweh (although I believe the study that you have done and found now 2,000 manuscripts with the full vowels showing Yehovah) but his claim is that the word Torah in Hebrew the 2nd letter of that word is the Vav so he claims that if the Vav is pronounced V then it would be TVrah instead of Torah. Is there some sort of grammar rule in Hebrew (with proof texts) that would make the Vav in Torah pronounced O?

I was under the impression the the letter VAV originally had an oo sound and it was written as U in english, The word shalom has a VAV between the lamed and the mem, but some Yahudim pronounce the word shalum. Yahrushalyim has a VAV but the word is not pronounced Yaroshalyim. So here we have yod hey vav hey. The yod is pronounced as a Y in english. The hey is pronounced as an H. The VAV is pronounced as an O…ie Yeho. So why have you added the V to represent the VAV……..doesn’t make sense man. The O in the name Yeh”o”vah is the VAV, not the V.

actually that is not the way it is in the 1985 version as it says

“While many a r e inclined t o view t h e pronunciation “Yah-
weh” a s the more correct way, we have retained the form
“Jehovah” because of people’s familiarity with it for centu-
ries. Moreover, i t preserves, equally with other forms, t h e
four letters of t h e divine name, YHWH (or, J H V H ) ”

this is a copy paste from that version, so no they are not saying that they see it as Yahweh but that many do, but they do not

Nehemiah, thanks for your scholarly contributions.
Would you be kind enough to address the pronunciation issue concerning “Yehouah” verses YeHoVaH and any grammatical, textual or historic fallacies supporting that pronunciation?

Linda, it’s the opposite! Jehovah’s witnesses have always claimed that the proper pronuncation is Jahweh, and that they say Jehovah for convenience sake.

On page 23 of their 1969 edition of The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures they write:

“While inclining to view the pronunciation ‘Yah-weh” as the more correct way, we have retained the form ‘Jehovah’ because of people’s familiarity with it since the 14th century. Moreover, it preserves , equally with other forms, the four letters of the Tetragrammaton JHVH.”

Nehemia says YEH at the beginning of a word and YAH on the end of a word. And Jehovah is the English pronunciation. But originally the J was pronounced as a Y, as it still is in some languages today. Hebrew speaking JWs say YEHOVAH. So yes. Jehovah’s Witnesses have been right all along. 🙂

Nehemia, Yehovah is very close to Jehovah, which the JW’s have said all along. Does this not vindicate them? We say Halleluyah, Praise YAH, should the beginning not be Yahovah? Does not the name Yahavah mean God, or YAH exists? Is it “Hawah, or Havah? I am very interested in the Karaite movement, where are they to be found in Southern California?

yes maybe an answer one day.

Donald Murphy.

i have used the name Yahweh or10-12 years, but your position makes sense.
anybody else use Yehovah as well?

Donald Murphy.

I bring the poem in manuscript and translation in my study Wow It’s a Vav!

Please site me a scholarly source that I can read that fully documents that arguments made here. I am particularly interested in the poem that Nehemia Gordon referenced.

…..and its YHVH not YHWH ? ?

What of YAH?? should it be yEh??

Yes, that’s my friend’s argument, that “dabid” is phonetically closer to “david” than “dauid”

Firstly, Greek doesn’t have the ‘v’ sound in any of its letters. So Greek has to choose a some letter with a different sound than that. Based upon what you show, they chose upsilon. But that doesn’t mean Hebrew uses a phonetically similar letter for דָּוִיד.

Secondly, the letter β is beta and is pronounced like the English B. So δαβιδ would be “dabid” not “david”.

Shalom Nehemia,

The argument of a friend of mine about the waw is that the hebrew names where transliterated in the Septuagint as waw for example דָּוִיד in the Septuagint is δαυιδ (dawid) not δαβιδ (david)

Thanks. The truth always resonates beautifully!

The problem here is simple. You are running up against scholarly “consensus” which you’ve made outdated and they simply don’t want to admit they might be wrong where their scholarship is concerned. Imagine the corrections that would have to be made to many Bible versions, for just one thing, if what you’ve discovered gais acceptance in the scholarly community and it is easy to see that you have your work cut out for you. Keep it up, though. I enjoy what you find given I am a student of God’s word first who is also a student of its languages.

I think the video was cut short before Nehemia dropped the mic. Always an incredible and well-researched presentation. Thank you for proclaiming our Father’s name, Yehovah!

I have every confidence in Nehemia’s declaration of the ancient pronunciation of YeHoVaH as the name of our Father. The divergent voices are not credible, without Nehemia’s formal education and his incredible experience and research, not to mention Nehemia’s unquenchable thirst for TRUTH. Praise be to YeHoVaH for wanting us to know His holy name!

Shalom,
As always it is well put together and insightful. I do learn so much. Thank you and Yehovah bless you.