Hebrew Voices #111 – PART 2/4 Does John 6:4 Belong in the New Testament

Actually, Exodus 12 “Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight” states the lambs are slaughtered at the BEGINNING of 14 Nisan, not at the end.

Twilight begins the new day. They were to slaughter the lambs and eat them that night (14 Nisan), fully dressed: “This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand.”

Jesus did exactly this, keeping vigil in the garden until midnight per the command (remember when He asked the disciples why they couldn’t keep vigil with him for an hour?). He was able to both eat the Passover meal according to Torah AND be executed on 14 Nisan.

Lev 23:5 “The Lord’s Passover begins at twilight on the fourteenth day of the first month. 6 On the fifteenth day of that month the Lord’s Festival of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast.”

Passover on 15 Nisan was a Pharisaical invention (merging two feasts), and was one bone of contention between the Pharisees and Sadducees. The Feast of Unleavened Bread begins on 15 Nisan and is another separate feast day.

This section of acts always bothered me. It didn’t make sense. Now I know why. Thank you.

Soooooo close, can’t u taste it? If y’all cud just see the last supper was the night of the 10th, beginning of 11th The Aviv, from the “simple reading of the text”. (Bibliography: Matt.26:2,17,20, Mark14:1, 12, 17, Luke22:1, 7, 14, John 12:1,12, n John13:1,2)

Sorry … one other comment/question:

Much of the discussion seems [to my busted ears] to interpret the writings of the John and the other Gospels ina chronological order.

Granted, much of it certainly is, as we can read in the authors’ references within the texts themselves.

But when it gets down to counting Passovers and the spacing and order in which they were written — does the overall text support this?

Nehemiah would know about this far better and more accurately than I, but doesn’t even the Old Testement writing style jump around [chronologically] a bit? Even the story of creation and Adam snd Eve?

I may likely be completely mistaken or erring in context. Does some of the ancient Hebrew writing style follow this kind of return to references divorced from chronological storytelling? Maybe not — I believe the ancient “church fathers” the discussion referenced assumed a complete chronological order, with no jumping-back in the narrative. But do we know the entries in question are chronological in context? If not, would that imoact the study of John 6:4, or the concern regarding “bunching” passovers too close together (which seems to rely on a steady chronology throughout each chapter of the Gospels).

Also, just because only 2 or possibly 3 Pasdovers were written about, does that absolutely mean there couldn’t have been some John and the others didn’t include? Just because something wasn’t written about doesn’t unnecessarily prove it didn’t happen — unless of course the context of everything else makes it impossible to allow for such.

Thank you for tollerating these long-winded comments. I won’t make a habit of it; it’s just been excellent and thought-provoking series.

I am enjoying this series. Thank you!

I became a bit discombobulated regarding the discussion of the counting of Passovers by Polycarp’s disciple [my lack of hearing made me uncertain if the name gives was that of Irenaeus or someone else]. Anyway, it “sounded” to me that the discussion leaned toward interpreting his ommission of John 6:4 to mean that verse didn’t exist in that disciples available versions.

Elsewhere in the discussion I think I heard a reference to one text referencing Tabernacles or another Feast and that the reference to Passover might be a later modification.

If that’s the case, wouldn’t it make sence for Polycarp’s disciple to not include John 6:4 if it did in fact exist in his versions — because his versions might have referenced Tabernacles. So, unless my bad ears derailed my understanding of the discussion completely, the chat about this fellow might not absolutely support the asdumption John 6:4 was completely missing in the ancient versions available to him.

I have an additional humble suggestion, because I love how this group works into the details and textual history. It would be great if they discuss the unnamed Feast of John 5 in even greater detail. It sounded as though most scholars are all but certain it was Passover. What would be the impact of it being another feast, say First Fruits, Tabernacles, etc? If that’s a possibility, would that impact the 1-year versus >2-year or 3.5-year ministry of Jesus? If so, I think a future discussion of this in greater detail woud be a very informative.

While Eusebius could influence the Greek copies to an extent, other languages like Latin, Syriac and Coptic would have been untouched by the Eusebius action.

The Eternal One, who changes not, created the heavens & the earth in 6 days. He rested on the 7th day, that was, is and forever shall be The Shabbat. Period. Yah has spoken. Why would Messiah change anything He spoke, being the Living Word, from Sinai??

Barley loaves were readily available. The loaves couldn’t have been made of wheat because the harvest was not yet. It would have to have been harvested, winnowed and ground to flour to make the loaves. That takes time but everyone had barley available by this time. YHVH bless.

This underscores why we need to expedite the publishing of the restored text of the Unabridged Holy Bible [no, the title does not exist, I hereby take credit for coining the term and grant use of the title in exchange for production of a Holy Bible that is free of scribal errors and alterations] Miles Jones is working on the Hebrew B’rit Chadashah, but we need the whole Tanakh restored as well. Like the 780 years edited from B’resheet 11: 12 – 24, all is important to understand the origins of humanity and intent of Yehovah.

Jn 5:1 After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

In my view, it is unusual that this is just called the ‘feast of the Jews’

Could this possibly have been the feast of dedication or Hanukkah?

In John 10:22-23 we can read that Yeshua had been in Jerusalem for the feast of dedication! This means he may also have been the year before?

And it was winter!! After winter follows spring and the Passover, as one can read in John 6:4…

Yeshua made this statement late May/ early June, in the middle of the wheat harvest during the sabbatical year of 28 C.E. Shavuot is four months before Yom Teruah, so he wanted them to stop looking to Sukkot for the ingathering, but pay attention to the Shavuot harvest! In the future, Shavuot is when the saints from Yeshua’s death up until his return will be raised in the resurrection, just like the saints from Adam until Yeshua were raised on the First-fruits of the barley harvest (Mat 27:52-53).

FF barley harvest = saints from creation > 31 C.E.
FF wheat harvest = saints from 31 C.E. > Yeshua’s second coming

Interestingly,

Jn 4:35 Say not all of you, There are yet four months, and then comes harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

Did Yeshua make His statement in the midst of a Sabbatical Year ?

If the fields are white and ready to harvest, and there are four month to the harvest, then this could possibly mean that no-one was allowed to harvest until the end of the Sabbatical Year ?

In connection to the passage in John 6:4 and the passover which had been not yet, but, was nigh or near, the following

Jn 6:54 Whoso eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jn 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
Jn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jn 6:71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.(yet future, when this was spoken)

Thus ends this chapter!! What does all this mean?

In no way can one CONCLUDE from this CHAPTER in John 6:4, that Yeshua “DID NOT” participate in the Passover, which was” nigh or near!!! …..”

We do know the Sabbatical years. There are pictures of Sabbatical year coinage found of Herod the Great for years -36, -29, -22, -15 and -8 B.C. So the “acceptable year” is a Sabbatical year of 28 C.E., which is when Yeshua’s ministry began (Luk 4:16-20). The years 28 and 31 are the only two that work with a Wednesday crucifixion and the sighted moon 14 days earlier. So, since he cannot begin and end his ministry at the same time, his death must be in -31.

We also know the Jubilee years from 2 Kings 19:29, which shows a Sabbatical year next to a Jubilee year. “And this is the sign for you: This year (Sabbatical -701 B.C.) you eat what grows of itself, and in the second year (Jubilee -700 B.C.) and in the third year (-699 B.C.) sow and reap and plant vineyards and eat their fruit. So from -700, one can count forwards and backwards to date every other Jubilee in history.

Not ‘all other prophesies require or are demanding a one year ministry’ and I never said they all do. How can anyone be so sure of the length of His ministry? Ask the church fathers … or read Michael’s book.

Where’s the evidence of yr. 31 crucifixion? Rood’s ‘The Chronological Gospels’ provides strong evidence for a 72 week ministry culminating with a 28 c.e. crucifixion from Historians of the day, the Talmud, and astronomical star programs from NASA. What’s not known is the sabbatical and Jubilee cycle of years,

Dear Daniel,

In no way do I uphold a reinvented Jesus, but rather put in question , how anyone can be so sure of the length of Yeshua’s ministry!

Again, I am quoting John 21:25
Jn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

This is an indication that, if even the world could not contain the books that should be written, then there may be many gaps, we may be unaware of!

I would love to read your explanation of how all other prophecies require or are demanding a one year ministry of Yeshua! Thank you!

I have a quote from Barnabas from his epistle. The church came together on Sunday morning, because that’s when they discovered that the tomb was empty, If Jesus rose in the night, then that still would have been the same day according to Hebrew time keeping. So He rose at night on Sunday and would have been in the tomb three nights from Wednsday. So, it was not Constantine that initiated Sunday worship. The Apostles saw Sunday as the eighth day in Leviticus, and the fulfillment of the seventh. We have to remember that Jesus was instigating the New Covenant on the evening of the prepartion day and that is why He called it “Passover.” (Luke 22:1). This is the quote from Barnabas, – “Lastly, He saith unto them: your new moons and your Sabbaths I cannot bear them” (Barnabus is quoting from Isaiah 58) – Consider what He means by it; the Sabbaths, says He, which ye now keep are not acceptable to Me, but those which I have made; when resting from all things I shall begin the eighth day, that is: the beginning of the other world for which cause we observe the eighth day with gladness, in which Jesus rose from the dead; and having manifested Himself to His disciples, ascended into heaven (The Epistle of Barnabus, Chapter 12: 9,10).
The eighth day is mentioned in Leviticus as a foreshadow of the rest to come in Jesus. The eighth day was also a Sabbath. There were actually two Sabbaths observed during certain occasions- Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a Sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a Sabbath. Le 23:39.
Thanks again for your help. I was trying to put together an article about Jesus instigating the New Passover and was trying to coordinate the timing.

No one from my generation has any delusions about the lack of internet and other electronic communications two thousand years ago. If you want to argue with the Apostolic Fathers and other church fathers regarding duration, go right ahead. But, if you think it makes NO difference (1 year vs 3+ years), all the other Messianic prophecies are of little or no importance also. One of the reasons European Jewry rejected Christ in Martin Luther’s day is because they were presented with a Greek reinvented Jesus, born on 25 Dec, 3 yr. ministry, abolished Mosaic Law, and couldn’t possibly be the one prophesied in Tanakh! If it took Christ 3 and a half years to do what is recorded he must’ve been one lazy dude, and prophets would be liars.

Shalom.

I think that the answer of whether Yeshua’s ministry lasted one or three and a half year cannot be known conclusively!

It all depends what one would class as ministry! In my view one year would not have been enough to bring about his fame amongst the population in such a large area! One has to consider they didn’t have an internet at the time!

Also, not everything he had spoken and done, had been written down! There must therefore be many gaps of which we have no knowledge of!

Jn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

I think it may have been Eusebius himself and his minions who went on a campaign of writing copies of John with the addition of ch.6, v.4, just to support his ‘opinion’ of 3.5 yr. ministry – and probably destroying copies they found with no 6:4 – just to inflate the ego and importance of Constantine.

My question is about this fact—the boy had barley loaves that he gave to Yeshua to share with the 5000.

If the unnamed feast in John chapter 5 is Shavuot then why barley loaves, as Shavuot celebrates first fruits of the wheat harvest?

Or was this to show that he was a poor boy as his family couldn’t afford wheat when it first ripened?

Thanks for your consideration.

Nehemia, Michael, and John,

THANK YOU for this series. Can’t wait for the next podcast to be released on this topic.

Having been raised in Christianity, I too had been taught a 3 1/2 year ministry. But my studies over the years couldn’t support that. Based upon the number of Passover’s in the Book of John, I could only arrive at 2 years PLUS change. But then too, I was including JN 6:4.

This is NOW making terrific sense, and I do not doubt in the least that Micheal, you, and John, are 100% accurate in your podcast. Yehovah God knows that I cherish every tidbit, every morsel of TRUTH that Yehovah shows me, often through you, and that I immediately cast aside any false beliefs I may have held when a truth is revealed. I do not wish to be stubborn or rebellious in His eyes.

Anyway. THANK YOU for this in-depth informational series, and will be excitedly awaiting your next presentation of this subject.

J.W.

Anon,

Seems s though you and I get the same the same conclusions from what is written about Passover/UB .

Few seem to be taking into account that the preparation time for cooking an entire lamb, whole, is apt to take upwards of 6-10 hours, maybe even more. (I’ve never done it, so guessing. I know turkeys take several hours and they are small compared to a whole lamb.)

From what I read, it appears Yeshua was sacrificed on a Wednesday, put in the tomb at the going down of the sun as Thursday was beginning, His body spent 3 nights and 3 days in the heart of the earth Mt 12:38-40, while His Spirit preached to spirits imprisoned from Noah’s day 1 Pet 3:18-19.

Thursday was a high day or annual Holy Day, UB1, Jn 19:31, so the women rested per the Commands of Holy Day observance Lev 23.

Friday, the shops would have been open so they could buy and prepare the spices. Friday eve, the weekly Shabbat occurred, so they observed that Holy Day as well. During a 15 day period, there are 3 weekly Shabbats and 2 annual Shabbats, 2 UB’s

Yeshua arose as the weekly Sabbath was ending 3 nights and 3 days. Of course He was gone at daybreak Sunday morning; He arose the evening before. So the Catholic Church with Emperor Constantine’s help, mistakenly made the first day of the week, Sunday, as their day of worship, then persecuted & killed the Jews and others, who observed the 7th day. The Catholic Encyclopedias relay this. What man has the authority to CHANGE the day Yehovah rested from creating? Not possible! But the Mother of Harlots, Rev 17:5, the Catholic Church, managed to do such and have deceived all her harlot daughters, the churches of Sunday Christianity.

The Catholic Church fathers DID NOT understand the feast days as being Holy Days like Sabbaths, so they took the women resting on the Sabbath as resting on the weekly Sabbath, not UB1.

For this lack of understanding they created the Good Friday/Easter Sunday tradition, which lacks even a minute of a 3rd night! Thus they have taught “Christianity” to believe Yeshua,(Jesus) their Savior/Messiah was a liar, because they IGNORE His Words at Mt 12:38-40.

Thank you so much for clearing this up for me. It has so much meaning. I really appreciate your help. Many blessings to you.

(Ye’shua read about “the acceptable year of Yehovah” from Isaiah 61:2 in the Sabbatical year of 28 C.E. when he began his ministry, so he showed the acceptable year to be a Sabbatical year. He died in 31 C.E.))

This is an interesting comment!

I also think that the answer of whether Yeshua’s ministry lasted one or three and a half year cannot be known conclusively!

It all depends what one would class as ministry! In my view one year would not have been enough to bring about his fame amongst the population in such a large area! One has to consider they didn’t have an internet at the time!

Also not everything he had spoken and done had been written down! There must therefore be many gaps of which we have no knowledge of!

My conclusion is: At present we simply don’t know!

Jesus was eating on the evening *of* the Preparation. On Preparation Day of the Passover (Joh 19:14), he was impaled at 9 a.m. (Mar 15:25) and there was darkness from noon to 3 p.m. when he died (Luk 23:44-46). Then they had to remove his body and place it in a tomb before sunset as the High Holy Day of the first day of Unleavened Bread began at evening starting the 15th day of the month (Luk 23:53-56, Joh 19:42, Lev 23:5-7). This night everyone ate the Passover as UB day 1 began. Since Jesus was literally the lamb (as all the other lambs were being prepared), he did not eat of it because he was in the grave.

Another quick question. Does this mean that Jesus ate with His disciples on the preparation day and did not eat on the Passover? (Forgive my aging brain, sometimes I have trouble coordinating things.) When I first read the account that’s what I thought. Jesus was eating on the evening after the preparation and was not able to keep the Passover, that was the day He was crucified and Barabbas was released? Please correct me if I am wrong. I am trying to answer this question for someone. Thanks.

Thank you very much. This is a big help. Many blessings to you.

Before the Festival of the Passover (John 13:1) would be the end of the 13th and the beginning of the 14th at night. The Passover lambs are killed on the 14th and eaten at night on the beginning of the 15th, which is the first day of Unleavened Bread.
end of 13th/ beginning of 14th > last supper, wash feet
end of 14th/ beginning of 15th > Passover/ UB1

Ye’shua read about “the acceptable year of Yehovah” from Isaiah 61:2 in the Sabbatical year of 28 C.E. when he began his ministry, so he showed the acceptable year to be a Sabbatical year. He died in 31 C.E.

THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR DILIGENCE MAY YEHOVAH BE PRAISED FOR YOU! TRUTH TRUTH SO WE CAN WORSHIP YEAHOAVH IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH (TORAH)

Yehovah be with you Nehemiyah! Thanks for everything you share us. With all the evidence you have collected. Do you believe in Yeshua as the messiah now?

Hi Nehemiah,
I find your studies very interesting. Regarding the insertion of John 6:4, I believe that the scribe that was copying this added it, or it was accidental copied in from his notes which can happen, to tell everyone that it was spring. Obviously they were not sitting in the snow when Jesus was multiplying the loaves and fishes. He would have kept that upcoming Passover. The next feast that was mentioned is Tabernacles in chapter seven, so we have been shown that the events described happened between spring and fall.
I also wanted to ask you if you had ever tackled the question regarding John’s account of the last supper? Do you know if his statement “before the feast of Passover” is an addition, or is he referring to the festival that happens after the actual Passover Seder the evening before? Thanks for all your hard work.