Hebrew Voices #113 – PART 3/4 – Does John 6:4 Belong in the New Testament
In this episode of Hebrew Voices, Does John 6:4 Belong in the New Testament – PART 3/4, we examine the controversy about the Gospel of John which has raged for nearly 2,000 years, as we continue our 4-part series to … Continue reading →
In this episode of Hebrew Voices, Does John 6:4 Belong in the New Testament - PART 3/4, we examine the controversy about the Gospel of John which has raged for nearly 2,000 years, as we continue our 4-part series to solve a textual conundrum using technology John could not have imagined and drawing on resources unavailable even a few years ago. Be sure to first watch Part 1 and Part 2!
I look forward to reading your comments!
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Hebrew Voices #113 – PART 3/4 Does John 6:4 Belong in the New Testament
You are listening to Hebrew Voices with Nehemia Gordon. Thank you for supporting Nehemia Gordon's Makor Hebrew Foundation. Learn more at NehemiasWall.com.
Michael: And so, now these gentlemen are going to take us on the rest of this journey as we are in now, the Gospel of John.
Nehemia: We’re looking at John 6:4, and we found out that in the 2nd century AD there were some manuscripts that did not have John 6:4, and the proof of that is these Church Fathers. We saw it in Clement of Alexandria, Irenaeus of Lyon, and Origen, and there are others that we couldn’t even get to. This was recognized for hundreds of years by Christian scholars. This is something that’s been discussed, debated and recognized; 1643 is our earliest reference to the debate.
But there is no manuscript anywhere of the New Testament where there’s a textual variant where it says, “Jesus is not the Messiah.” That manuscript doesn’t exist. There is no manuscript of the New Testament where it says that Yeshua did not rise on the third day. That manuscript doesn’t exist.
So what we are really talking about are some of these details, and the same could be said of the Tanakh. There are Tanakh manuscripts, for example, where it’s said of Yehovah, it says, “Adonai” or “Adonai” it says, “Yehovah”. We’ll see an example perhaps later. But we don’t have any manuscripts of the Tanakh where it says that Moses didn’t write the Torah. Every single manuscript agrees that Moses wrote the Torah and that God appeared to the Israelites, 600,000 men and many other women and children, at Mount Sinai and spoke directly to them. Every single manuscript of the Bible that exists preserves that record.
So what we’re really talking about here are some of the finer details, and those details can be important to people, because if you want to understand the chronology, then Michael has presented a possibility. Really, my question from the very beginning is, could Michael be right? I don’t need to prove if he’s right. That comes from what I call the explanatory scope. He can explain all these details and all this information about the Gospels which otherwise seem like random events which are kind of jumbled.
And people have been doing this for centuries. In the 2nd century there was a man named Tatian who took the four Gospels and tried to put them in a chronological order. So this is something the Christian scholars have been doing for many, many centuries. Michael’s attempted to do it. John 6:4 did not fit into his model, and now we’re looking at the evidence for whether that is supported or not.
We talked about Origen who was this 2nd century Church Father, he lived at the end of the 2nd century. He talks about the ministry of Yeshua being one year, and then he says other statements which make it clear he does not have John 6:4 in his Gospel at that time. At the end of Origen’s life, it is argued by those who support the three-and-a-half-year ministry, such as George Ogg; we mentioned his book before. It’s a really good book, you should get it on amazon.com. Ogg argues that Origen not only had the one-year ministry early in His life, but later in His life he actually advocated for a longer ministry. In fact, a three-and-a-half or possibly even a three-year ministry.
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Thank you for the study of the Torah and the New Testament! I just bought the book by George Ogg, “The Chronology of the Public Ministry.” There is no Kindle version, so I purchased the hardback which is cheaper than the paperback. I love studying the Scriptures and especially Hebrew and Greek! I love what you are doing and I am running with you in the pack to divide the truth from man’s intersections of falsehoods and heresy. Thank you for your diligent work so I can know what is real and not real. Love you all dearly!
I would like to hear what michael and nehemiah think about mat 28:19. Was it in older manuscripts and should it be in the Bible.
Interesting perspective. I like the Two Witnesses part but I prefer the one year ministry of Yeshua concept. That way all four gospels agree. Of course this is just my preference based on the evidence I’ve heard.
The Two Witnesses will be bringing plagues on the beast kingdom. I also believe they will proclaim the Torah, Yehovah’s Name and faith in Yeshua.
a pagan concept ( a Roman religion).
Shalom,
Just a few thoughts on Dan 9 ….
The number 7 indicates completeness. One day can also stand for one year! If Yeshua’s ministry had been cut off after three and a half years, then this would mean that at the end times, another ministry in the spirit of Yeshua has to last three and a half years, and be cut off after three and a half years .. ? !
Yeshua’s ministry had been to the House of Judah and Israel!
Could it be that another ministry in the ‘spirit of Yeshua’ has to go out to the Gentiles? A ministry lasting three and a half years and being cut off after three and a half years as described in … **
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Zech 4:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
Mt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Abomination of Desolation
**In my view much hangs on the word of Yeshua and his reference to the prophecy in Daniel !!**
Mt 24:15 When all of you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso reads, let him understand:)
Wow, and Thanks! I’m glad it’s presented in 4 parts, because my brain is full and won’t be able to watch this part again without some sleep and nourishment.
It would be very interesting and revealing if you could continue your research of other verses including 1John 5:7 and 1Timothy 3:16
These were discussed in great detail within a dissertation by Isaac Newton in his work “An Historical Account of Two Notable Corruptions of Scripture”
I’m looking for the book and can’t wait for Part 4 although I am confident that the hypothesis is already proved to be reasonable.
I am enjoying your progressive explanation, including the revelation of the biases of the church fathers, and know that this is just a summary of an enormous body of work.
I have also read an interpretation where Jesus ministry was 3.5 years and the other 3.5 yrs is when Steven was stoned by Paul and Paul took over the building of the church which would make Vatican the 3rd Temple. This is not what I believe.
Finally part 3. Watched it immediately. Feels like watching it is a mini-course on textual analysis and a semester on seminary and also an Agatha Christie novel. Its wonderful. Can’t wait for part 4. Some may be afraid that this is their Christianity being attacked. I find the opposite. My faith in my faith is strengthened in this seminar and I’m leaving it up to seeing where the journey on this takes us.
Thank you Michael Rood for inspiring John and Nehemia on this investigation. And thank you John and Nehemia for all the work. What is John’s name by the way – does he have a blog, website, or other way to follow his work?
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